Apologia Report AR-Talk
December 5, 1997

From: ar-talk@xc.org (E. Calvin Beisner)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:27:04 EST
Subject: Re: AR-talk Anton LaVey

Originally from: e.calvin.beisner@juno.com (E. Calvin Beisner)
Originally dated: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:27:04 EST

Dear John,

Grace and peace to you in the Lord.

Two other possibilities (not mutually exclusive), both of which have
better Biblical foundation than MPD or other psychological disorders as
explanations for "Debbie's" behavior: lying and demon possession. Sound
confrontation with the Biblical call to repentance may very well be in
order.

In Christ,
E. Calvin Beisner 423-825-0738
4409 Alabama Ave., Chattanooga, TN 37409 USA
Associate Professor of Interdisciplinary Studies
Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, GA 30750 USA
Office phone: 706-820-1572 ext. 1417; Office fax 706-820-2165

On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:20:02 EST ar-talk@xc.org (John W. Morehead)
writes:
>Originally from: jwmorehead@juno.com (John W. Morehead) Originally
>dated: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:20:02 EST We are working with a church in
>Yuba City, CA that has generated some controversy over their boycott

[...]

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------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (Anton Hein)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:35:02 GMT
Subject: Re: AR-talk Anton LaVey

Originally from: ahein@xs4all.nl (Anton Hein)
Originally dated: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:35:02 GMT

On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:20:02 EST, you, ar-talk@xc.org (John W.
Morehead), wrote:

>the pastor of this church has a woman living with his family who
>allegedly is a daughter of the late founder of the Church of Satan
>headquartered in San Francisco, Anton LaVey. This woman came forward at a
>Benny Hinn crusade and was allegedly demon possessed, and also claims to
>be wanted by Satanists for turning her back on the religion. From my
>research I can only find two LaVey daughters, Karla and Zeena, and no
>mention of a "Debbie", the name the woman in Yuba City is known by now.

John,

Kona coffee, grown in Hawaii, is among the best in the world.
Unfortunately, Hawaii's annual production of Kona amounts to an average
of 23,000 bags. However, a friend of mine, who is in the coffee
business, pointed out that in the States alone, so much coffee is sold
as "Kona" that just for Hawaii to be able to produce that amount each
year, the island should be larger than China.

Likewise, the number of times that I have heard about supposed daughters
or Anton LaVey appealing to local churches (in the States) for help,
would mean the man had an inpossibly huge family.

Matter of fact, sometime around 1985, at the Vineyard of San Diego, we
too had a lady come to our church claiming to be Anton LaVey's daughter.
She claimed she was being sought by the satanist group she had just
escaped. She could not appeal to the police for help, she said, because
several high-placed local police officers were key-satanists. We were
also told that we'd find no mention of her name or existence as Anton
LaVey had disowned her.

We helped her, but soon discovered she had traveled around the country
this way - going from church to church - and was sought by police in
several states for theft, fraud and swindling. Notice that she sounded
very believable, knew satanic and Christian lingo, and appeared to be
very sincere.

We became suspicious for several reasons. For example, she could not
provide us with any personal details, names of acquaintances, or a clear
account of where she had been before she came to us. In fact, when
pressed, she became either sad or angry, accusing us of not trusting
her, saying that the satanists had warned her this would be so, and
suggesting she might be better off going back to them.

Her story crumbled when she stole a phone card from the people she was
staying with. The phone company called them when charges over a
one-week period exceeded $2,000.00. The list of phone numbers called
included those of people she had stayed with before, friends, mail order
firms, and other churches where - it appeared - she was planning to go
next. We learned about her changing appearance, her different names,
fake IDs, etc.

In a case like this, I think it is wise to contact the local police
and/or FBI. At the very least, their involvement can confirm or rule
out certain possibilities. Note that once told the police has been or
will be contacted, the risk of flight is great and can include "go for
broke" theft.

Anton
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Christian Ministry Report: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ahein
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------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org ("MW Bassett")
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:53:31 -0500
Subject: Re: AR-talk Anton LaVey

Originally from: "MW Bassett" <mbasset@iconn.net>
Originally dated: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:53:31 -0500

> Originally from: e.calvin.beisner@juno.com (E. Calvin Beisner)
> Originally dated: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:27:04 EST
>
> Two other possibilities (not mutually exclusive), both of which have
> better Biblical foundation than MPD or other psychological disorders as
> explanations for "Debbie's" behavior: lying and demon possession. Sound
> confrontation with the Biblical call to repentance may very well be in
> order.

My goodness! Are you saying that one who claims to have received
deliverance at Benny Hinn crusade, might actually be delivered INTO sin,
and the possession of Satan?

I went to the "christian bookstore", for a copy of one of Hinn's books, as
I needed it for references as he popularly represents some assertions that
I am arguing against in a paper. It wasnt bad enough to have to shell out
the cash, but I had to order the book (they had all his others, but not
this one), but when it came in yesterday, they explained that it was only
printed in HARD COVER. I couldnt believe it. So, here I have a nice hard
cover copy of a book from the author of "Good Morning, Holy Spirit". The
cover says, if I will read this I "... will be lead into a vital life
changing experience with each member of the Godhead". "The moment could be
now".

Please don't respond to this on AR-Talk. I know its a sarcastic, off-topic
quip, but I have moments like that :)

------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (JKWWFI)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:04:25 EST
Subject: AR-talk Live on AOL: "Are Mormons Christian?" discussed by Dr. Mouw

Originally from: JKWWFI <JKWWFI@aol.com>
Originally dated: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:04:25 EST

I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O

TO: All Watchman Staff
FROM: James K. Walker
RE: Live: AOL's The Globe: Are Mormons Christian? discussed by Dr. Mouw
BCC: AR-Talk; Others
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
Fuller Seminary President, Dr. Richard Mouw, will be the featured guest on
America Online's The Globe for a live chat discussion Saturday, December 13 at
9 pm Eastern. His topic, How Wide the Divide? by Steven Robinson and Craig
Blomberg.

Dr. Mouw's review of the book in Books & Culture can be found here:
<A HREF="http://www.christianity.net/bc/7B5/7B5011.html">
http://www.christianity.net/bc/7B5/7B5011.html</A>

Pasted below is a copy of the promotion I received from Christianity Today's
"Christianity Online."

James K. Walker, President
Watchman Fellowship, Inc.
<A HREF="mailto:jkwwfi@aol.com">jkwwfi@aol.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.watchman.org">www.watchman.org</A>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
<>< <>< <>< <>< <><
CHIT CHAT
<>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Topic: Can a Real Mormon Believe in Jesus?
Who: <A HREF="aol://4344:122.Mouw.1251723.565478587">Dr. Richard Mouw</A>
When: Saturday, December 13, 9 pm ET
Where: The Globe Auditorium

Dr. Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary, North America's
largest seminary, has written a review for Books & Culture magazine (available
on Christianity Online at keyword: B&C) of the book, How Wide the Divide? A
Mormon and Evangelical in Conversation, which will be the focus of the chat.

An excerpt from his review follows:

"It is important for Mormons and traditional Christians to talk about these
things. But for starters we should be encouraged to speak to each other in
very personal terms about how we came to sense the need for a Savior, and how
we have responded to the healing that he brings in his wings. The conversation
must also move to larger issues about what it means to proclaim and teach the
gospel in its power and purity. We would also do well to reflect together
about the history of our relationships with each other; here evangelicals may
have to admit that Mormonism has sometimes flourished, whatever its
confusions, because we have not always been very faithful in our own teaching
and practice.

Perhaps -- perhaps -- these conversations will even convince us that we have
more to learn together about the gospel itself. At the very least, our
discussions can help us to avoid bearing false witness against our neighbors.
This book should be carefully studied by anyone who is convinced that such a
dialogue is a good and important thing to pursue."

Join us in the Globe Auditorium on Saturday, December 13 at 9 pm ET to ask
your questions and chat with Dr. Mouw on this intriguing and thought-provoking
topic!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
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------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org ("Eric Pement")
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:20:44 -0600
Subject: Re: AR-talk Anton LaVey

Originally from: "Eric Pement" <epement@jpusa.chi.il.us>
Originally dated: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:20:44 -0600

Replying to John Morehead <jwmorehead@juno.com>, who on 5 Dec 97 wrote:

> We are working with a church in Yuba City, CA that has generated some
> controversy over their boycott of a local mall with a store that sells
> neopagan and occultic paraphernalia. I learned today, in confidence, that
> the pastor of this church has a woman living with his family who
> allegedly is a daughter of the late founder of the Church of Satan
> headquartered in San Francisco, Anton LaVey. This woman came forward at a
> Benny Hinn crusade and was allegedly demon possessed, and also claims to
> be wanted by Satanists for turning her back on the religion. From my
> research I can only find two LaVey daughters, Karla and Zeena, and no
> mention of a "Debbie", the name the woman in Yuba City is known by now.
>
> Has anyone heard of the person in this case, it's connection with the
> Benny Hinn Crusade? Any insights would be appreciated.

There have been one or two people who claimed to be the illegitimate
children of Anton LaVey over the years.

A flamboyant case involved Joey "Littlewolf" LaVey, who claimed to
be Anton LaVey's son with Cheyenne Indian woman, whose father was
grooming him to take over as Black Pope of the Church of Satan. He
hung around the Calvary Chapel crowd for in Orange County, California,
in the mid-1970s, slightly pudgy, riding a motorcycle and dressed in a
black leather jacket. Bob and Gretchen Passantino, Elliot Miller, and
Kurt Van Gorden have all given me the details of this story. The
kicker is that after about a year or so, it was discovered (I think by
one of Joey's roommates) that "Joey" was really a woman! The other
details of his/her story were quite false. Gretchen will fill you in
on these if you call her.

In July 1995, I was contacted by the assistant editor of _The
Christian Reader_, Kevin Miller, who had received a story submitted
for publication from "Rev. Anthony LaVey, Ex-Satanist" who was
associated with a Christian church near Las Vegas, Nevada, and with
Vineyard Ministries in Newburg, Oregon. He had started an anti-occult
ministry, "Salt Ministries" in Las Vegas, NV, complete with church
recommendations, a board of directors, promo literature and a nicely
printed fact sheet on Satanism (his business card says "Specialize in
Occult Problems"). The photocopied fliers contain a nice photo of
Anthony LaVey as "Son of Anton LaVey" and claim that "Antony was
delivered out of the Church of Satan and is now an evangelist to
Satanists".

The photo shows a face that could pass for either male or female
(somewhat like the gender-ambiguous "Pat" from Saturday Night Live).
The testimony material accompanying the flier includes a *FORGED* birth
certificate claiming that "Anthony" is the son of "Anton S. Lavey" and
"Dezba Littlewolf", born in Germany -- yes, you heard me right: a
forged birth certificate. I have only a photocopy of the certificate,
but the cut-and-paste job is so bad that it's palpably obvious even to
an amateur that his birth certificate has been doctored.

There is also another crudely forged document from the U.S. Dept.
of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs, claiming that "Jai A.
Littlewolf" is a member of the Cheyenne Indian tribe (for some reason,
"Anthony" had sent this along to _The Christian Reader_ also).

Kevin Miller talked to "Anthony" on the phone, who told him that
he has two half-sisters by his father Anton LaVey (presumably Karla and
Zeena). "Anthony" claimed to have some relationship or recognition by
Paul Crouch of Trinity Broadcasting Network. As you might suspect,
_The Christian Reader_ decided not to do the story, and they sent all
their material to me.

John, my first impulse is to suspect that "Anthony Littlewolf" has
decided to stop passing as male, and is now continuing his/her sham
career as a female. On the other hand, it could be a completely
different woman who also hopes to capitalize on the notoriety of being
the daughter of Anton LaVey. If I were you, I would ask for further
information, and for what evidence or testimony she can give to support
her alleged background. (Be prepared for flying bricks as soon as you
ask this question.) Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Eric Pement

- --
Eric Pement <epement@jpusa.chi.il.us>
senior editor, Cornerstone magazine
939 W. Wilson Ave., Chicago, IL 60640-5706
tel: 773/561-2450, x2084 fax: 773/989-2076
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------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (John W. Morehead)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:01:19 EST
Subject: Re: AR-talk David Berlinski -panelist in evolution \ creation

Originally from: jwmorehead@juno.com (John W. Morehead)
Originally dated: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:01:19 EST

I don't recall how I found Berlinski's article initially, but he wrote a
controversial article which appeared in the June 1996 issue of Commentary
magazine titled "The Deniable Darwin." The article states that Berlinski
has "taught mathematics and philsophy in American and French
universityies, is the author, most recently, of A Tour of the Calculus
(Pantheon) and of The Body Shop, a novel forthcoming from St. Martin's.
His article, "The Soul of Man Under Physics," appeared in the January
1996 issue of Commentary. It can be found online at
<http:/www.sojourn.com/~revev/web/dendar.html>. You might also enjoy the
much more brief article he wrote, "The Limits of Darwinism," at
<http://www-polisci.mit.edu/berlinski.html>.

Finally, another recommended piece by Phillip Johnson is his
November-December 1996 online debate which followed from PBS's NOVA
production called "Odyssey of Life," where Johnson debated Kenneth
Miller, professor of biology at Brown University. The cyber debate is
called "How Did We Get Here?." I don't have the URL, but it can be found
on the NOVA web page which should be found under the search "NOVA
Online/Odyssey of Life/How Did We Get Here."

Blessings

John
TruthQuest Institute

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:41:22 -0800 ar-talk@xc.org (Shane Michaels) writes:
>Originally from: michaels@compusmart.ab.ca (Shane Michaels)
>Originally dated: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:41:22 -0800
>
>Hi John,
>
>a couple days back you wrote about the upcoming evolution \ creation
>tv debate and included info re: one David Berlinski, whose
"anti-evolution article in Commentary drew considerable attention last
year"
Someone here who is much more knowledgeable about the leading lights
in these kinds of things asked about this fellow, can you or anyone help
us out with info, who David Berlinski is, background, online resource
material, or even this article, if its on the net etc?
>
Thanks as always!

>shane
>
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------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (Rich Poll)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 97 19:32:55 -0000
Subject: Re: AR-talk Anton LaVey

Originally from: Apologia@xc.org (Rich Poll)
Originally dated: Sat, 6 Dec 97 19:32:55 -0000

On 12/5/97 5:19 AM, John W. Morehead <ar-talk@xc.org> wrote:

>I can only find two LaVey daughters, Karla and Zeena...

FWIW, a clear photo of Karla is included with the following article.
Here's the entry for this Monday's issue of AR:

---- snip ----

"The Death of the Party" by Edward E. Plowman -- reflections on the
life and death of Anton Szandor LaVey. "LaVey was not into
supernatural Satanism at all. He would have been first to flee if
Satan or a demon had appeared during a black mass. Mr. LaVey
described practitioners of supernatural Satanism as 'nut cases.'"
World, Nov 29 '97, p18.

-- from Apologia Report 2:40 -- December 8, 1997

---- snap ----

Rich

                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     Rich Poll <Apologia@xc.org>
                                        Editor, Apologia Report
                                        <http://apologia.org>

------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (John W. Morehead)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 22:00:16 EST
Subject: Re: AR-talk Anton LaVey

Originally from: jwmorehead@juno.com (John W. Morehead)
Originally dated: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 22:00:16 EST

I have found out through communication with the webmaster for the Church
of Satan, that Karla is one of the co-directors of the church in the wake
of LaVey's death. If the woman in question in Yuba City is not the
younger (and only other true LaVey) daughter, then we are dealing with a
case of fraud. The only other child LaVey had is a four year old son.

A friend who attends the church in question has taken a photocopy I have
of LaVey and his two daughters to the church to do some low-profile
checking. I have also inquired, per Paul Carden's recommendation, with
the Passantinos. Apparently they have experienced other fraudulent LaVey
children.

Thanks for the heads up.

John
TruthQuest Institute
On Sat, 6 Dec 97 19:32:55 -0000 ar-talk@xc.org (Rich Poll) writes:
>Originally from: Apologia@xc.org (Rich Poll)
>Originally dated: Sat, 6 Dec 97 19:32:55 -0000
>>
>FWIW, a clear photo of Karla is included with the following article.
>Here's the entry for this Monday's issue of AR.
>
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------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (Anton Hein)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 04:24:30 GMT
Subject: AR-talk FYI: "Brown/Hanegraaff Dialogue Leads to Reconciliation"

Originally from: ahein@xs4all.nl (Anton Hein)
Originally dated: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 04:24:30 GMT

Interesting article about the recent meeting between Dr. Michael Brown
and Hank Hanegraaff:

http://harvest.reapernet.com/hank/

------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org (William Alnor)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 23:50:25 -0800
Subject: AR-talk Potential opportunities with the Christian Sentinel

Originally from: William Alnor <walnor@vm.temple.edu>
Originally dated: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 23:50:25 -0800

Dear apologetics colleagues:
    During the past year or so I have received many inquiries from folks
about when the next issue of Christian Sentinel would be published. As
some of you know, this magazine which focuses on apologetics, cults and
religious trends (along with a smattering of investigative reporting),
has not been mailed out in more than a year due to a variety of reasons
(not the least of which have been financial reasons). Since our last
issue, Eastern Christian Outreach, the 501 (c) (3) nonprofit ministry
that publishes it, has produced several issues of the EChO Extra that
have kept some people somewhat abreast on what were doing. Others have
kept up with me via private e-mails, etc.
    Well, I have good news. We're about ready to go to press. We are
now also on-line with a primitive web page that will be rapidly
developed during the next several months. (See
http://www.cultlink.com. Our web servant is Roger Stuart whom some of
you know.) In conjunction with this, and perhaps the main reason for
this post, is that we are looking for some good people to come on board
and grow with us from the ground floor. But first, some news from our
front.
    Some have wondered whether The Christian Sentinel and EChO have gone
belly up, and whether I have disappeared from the apologetics universe
altogether. The answer is no. In fact, I have a major article in the
Spiritual Counterfeits Project Journal just mailed out the deals with
the ethical, financial and spiritual transgressions of Deepak Chopra.
(I was amazed in researching the article over how much dirt is out there
on this man.)
    However, we _have been in somewhat of a hibernation state_ as I have
been preoccupied with other things, including health problems in my
immediate family. (BTW, thanks for praying for us!) Other things I
have been involved with have been reentering graduate school last year
to complete my Master's degree in journalism dovetailed with my Ph.D.
work in Mass Media and Communications at Temple University in
Philadelphia. I also continue to teach undergraduate journalism course
at Temple University concurrently (which makes it difficult being both
an instructor AND a graduate student.) Also during the past three
months I began teaching communications at Lehigh University and at
another college. And if that has not been enough, in October 1996 I
started a Bible study in the Lehigh Valley area of Pennsylvania
(Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton) that spun off into a church, Calvary
Chapel of the Lehigh Valley, that is going through the affiliation
process with Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel movement. Web page:
http://www.cclv.org. We began holding Sunday morning services a little
more than a year ago and have been blessed with slow growth. Because of
the success of the church we (meaning my family Jackie and our three
children) have moved out of the city of Philadelphia to about 60 miles
north which enables me to further develop the church. This move has
also contributed greatly to our being out of touch with the apologetics
community in the way I used to be. (We moved four months ago, and I
still can't find anything! Much mail has gone unanswered.)
    Also, as some of you probably know, I received a great deal of
attention during the past year due to the fact that one of my recent
books, UFOs in the New Age, was thrust into national attention due to
the Heaven's Gate suicides. That book, published in 1992 by Baker Book
House, had several sections dealing with the Bo and Peep cult -- before
they became Heaven's Gate. I have since written another book, UFO Cults
and the New Millennium, which will be published in the Spring. It deals
with Heaven's Gate, the Solar Temple, the Aum Supreme Truth (Asahara
cult), and a number of other space age cults (including Scientology) as
we are poised to enter the new millennium. For further information
about this new release see http://www.bakerbooks.com
    We now working on a new, totally redesigned Christian Sentinel that
we hope to publish during January. We are slightly changing the focus of
it (more investigative reporting and media criticism), and we are now
accepting advertising. E-mail me or write us for our rate card. All
subscriptions from the past will be honored, and we are giving away free
one-year subscription. Therefore, if you have not been on our list in
the past and you want to receive a subscription, e-mail me your address
we'll place you on our mailing list. As of now, our list is about
12,000.
    But one of the main reasons for this post is to let my colleagues
know that we are looking for talented people familiar with magazine
publishing to assist us. Specifically we are seeking people to come
aboard to help in the following roles:
    Director of Advertising (must know how to sell ads, and must be well
connected in the evangelical business community)
    Director of Design (must be familiar with Quark Express, Pagemaker
or MS Publisher)
    Of course, we are also open to publishing good articles from you,
but e-mail me first with your ideas. The first several issues are
already pretty much set to go.
    If anyone is interested in helping, please e-mail me back and we'll
take it from there.
    One last thing: I am in the process of putting together a major
national Christian conference on UFOs and the occult in Roswell, New
Mexico during the fall of 1998. It will be a quality conference that
will be groundbreaking in many ways. E-mail me for more information.
I am lining up site information and church sponsorships. Will will be
having in conjunction with the conference, a certain number of
workshops. If you have anything to contribute, please let me know.
Can't promise anything for now as far as funds, but I am working on it.

In the Lamb,

Bill Alnor
WAlnor@vm.temple.edu
Mailing address:
P.O. Box 11322
Phila., PA 19137-1322

------------------------------

From: ar-talk@xc.org ("Olivia Hanson")
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:08:24 -0600
Subject: Re: AR-talk David Berlinski -panelist in evolution \ creation tv debate

Originally from: "Olivia Hanson" <faith@insync.net>
Originally dated: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:08:24 -0600

I believe John Morehead listed sources for David Berlinski. Since I no longer have that list,
hopefully these additional articles may contain a few not listed.

http://www.rae.org/

http://www.rae.org/authors.html

http://www.rae.org/revevlnk.html

==========================

By the way, I apologize for my previous outburst regarding the tangential discussion of
apologetics for children. Continued solemnity coupled with my, at times, lack of tolerance
will produce results not always appreciated by all.

And thanks, Rob. I had a list of resources from Hugh Ross and failed to remember.

Olivia Hanson
http://www.insync.net/~faith

Apologia Report AR-TalkDecember 5, 1997

Apologia Report AR-Talk
December 5, 1997